First, as a courteous FYI, I just wanted to give my reasoning for switching the images. The new one, by Edourd Manet is, I think, more illustrative of the "plot" of the poem. I do like the Gustave Dore one with the skeleton who wouldn't? Feel free to disagree.
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Also, I think it's about time we started trying to get rid of that original research that's lowering the quality of this article. Let's try to get some sources for analysis, and get "The Raven" up to Good Article status! I've removed the following, due to original research it's been tagged for months: Although we are told in those stories that the narrators have killed someone, in "The Raven" we are only told that the narrator appropriate term for poetic voice has lost his love, Lenore.
Poe's characters usually do not feel "guilt" because they did a "bad" thing—that is, the story is not didactic in his essay " The Poetic Principle " Poe called didacticism the worst of "heresies" ; there is no "moral to the story. It is completely indifferent to societal distinctions between right and wrong. In addition to the narrator's physical terror throughout the poem, there are a great many psychologically disturbing sequences and images described as well.
The narrator quickly learns what the bird will say in response to his questions, and he knows the answer will be a negative "Nevermore". However, he asks questions, repeatedly, which would optimistically have a "positive" answer, "Is there balm in Gilead? Will I meet Lenore in Aidenn? The themes of self-perpetuating anguish and self-destructive obsession over the death of a beautiful woman are in themselves the most poetic of topics, according to Poe see his essay " The Philosophy of Composition ".
The torture which the bird has brought to the narrator was already in the narrator's ruminating character—the bird only brought out what was inside.
Why or how Lenore was lost is unknown, but the narrator is torn between the desire to forget and the desire to remember. The female beauty dies without cause or explanation—or she dies because she was beautiful. In the end, the narrator clings to the memory, for that is all he has left. What the raven has taken from him so cruelly is his loneliness—but this cruelty he brought upon himself, for he cannot resist the urge to interrogate the raven. He is fascinated by the bird's repeated, desolate reply.
The speaker repeatedly asks it questions in the hope that it will say "yes" forevermore —or perhaps out of a morbid desire to be again told "no" nevermore. Although the bird seems a hallucination , it is in fact real this is not to say that the narrator does not hallucinate at all, however , with real black feathers and a real croaking of the single word, "Nevermore. I'm sorry I'm not discussing most of the specific changes I'm making to this article before making them; I rarely get responses, so I'm doing this now as an afterthought.
Please, please, understand that I am very interested in collaborating on this project and I'd love to hear some feedback - my way isn't necessarily the best way. Anyway, with that said, I've done quite a bit today. Here's an abbreviated version:. I'm thinking a section for "Analysis" or "Interpretation" is unnecessary at this point; possibly some expansion on the "Allusions" section. Also on the "to do" list is a re-write of the introduction to properly introduce what the entire article contains.
I have passed this article's GA because I believe it meets the GA criteria for being well written, broad in its coverage, factually accurate, neutral and stable. I question why the "Athena" wikilink in the intro links to a disambiguation page - perhaps it should be moved to link to Athena rather than Pallas. Good work on a well-known work, consider taking to WP: Cheers, Corvus coronoides talk Since the poem is in public domain it should be listed in full text here or failing that a link to the poem should be provided —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.
Well, this article was put up for Featured Article Review but was not promoted. I did everything that was recommended - except for adding more information about "The Parrot Who Knew Papa" and "Lolita. After exhausting some dozen and a half sources, I'm at a loss to find more - and this is using the library of the Edgar Allan Poe National Historic Site. If anyone has further information, please add it in.
I think more people just need to vote next time, rather than just making comments and never returning once the recommended changes were made. I'm inclined to put it up for FA review again tomorrow. It's officially been renominated. Here we go again! I was just about to change "Nevermore" to "nevermore" small "n" in the introduction, considering it to be a mistake, and then noticed that the word is consistently capitalized through the entire article.
Well, I still think it's a mistake. This is a whitewash.
I am a huge Poe and Raven fan, but this article is schlock. In particular it only provides one side of the critical reception. Poe was a literary critic and was also often on the receiving end of literary criticism. The Raven was a focal point for those critical of Poe, who viewed it as a lazy, sing-songy bit of schlock. This view is utterly unrepresented in the article as it exists. I wish this article were featured as a truly featured-article status, b ut as it is it only exists with a brief synopsis and pro-Poeist apology.
We can do better. But I speak as an engineer, surely there are English majors out there editing the-pedia who can opine and improve? I've been enjoying reading and tweaking! I was a bit curious about the use of the words deprecate and depreciate in the article, but not sure enough of what was meant to change the usage. My understanding of 'self deprecating' is 'belittling or undervaluing oneself' taken from Dictionary. Are the narrator's questions really doing this? He seems to me rather to be punishing himself.
Does this use of self deprecating come from the source cited? The closest meaning I can find at Dictionary. That doesn't seem quite to make sense here in reference to the angel's presence. Is what is meant here something more like 'resents'? As an aside, that is not at all how I read the narrator's comment: This is the first time I've read this poem in a long while though, and I've never studied it in depth. Truthfully, I have never seen such aggressive, dedicated copy editing on a single article before.
I'm overwhelmed and, as one of the main "watchers" of this article, I can't keep up!! I'm wondering if any of the copy editors are interested in taking a brief look at Edgar Allan Poe for the same clean-up This is the most wonderful and empowering video you have here Very glad you put it here I'm looking this over and found some mistakes I made some minor changes to the structure and grammar of the first part of the article.
Hopefully it is not considered vandalism: I enjoy editing things, please let me know if you feel something is off and we can fix it. Sorry for all the extra edits, but I've been trying to fit the full text of the poem in without making the article too long. I think I've succeeded in doing this; however, it may need some tweaking.
I amended it accordingly. However, I was reverted and advised to come to the talk page. And so here I am.
You guys are much better than the guys at Sparknotes, who refused to include this poem. What makes it more amazing that it's a community of common people and scholars that do not profit from writing this article. You guys fully deserve this Featured Article status, I look forward to working with you guys in literary analysis and we can undermine Sparknotes and Cliffsnotes. Why isn't the adaption made by the Simpsons not mentioned? It's the most famous adaption of The Raven. I have no expertise in meter, so don't wish to call into question the analysis given here and in many sources, but rather to satisfy my own curiosity I wonder if someone could explain to me on what basis this poem is analysed as being in trochaic octameter.
It strikes me as an artificial and arbitrary choice to say that each line is an octameter with a great deal of internal rhyming, rather than analyse these as two lines, each a tetrameter, with a more conventional rhyme. Certainly the sense does little to suggest that these should be interpreted as longer lines.
Literary Criticism of Edgar Allan Poe – Literary Theory and Criticism Notes
Is it simply that Poe wrote lines of eight feet? Or is there a more concrete explanation that can be given? Che Gannarelli talk In all the versions of the Hebrew Bible, there is never any mention made of a white raven being released and turned black for not returning. It's true, two ravens were released before the famouse dove was, however, the entire episode mentions nothing of any transformation of any kind. The "dread" theme is not new to poetry.
Still, Poe did write what was clearly a classic. This kind of dispute should be more public and I think we need to look for further opinions on this. Has anyone seen a reliable, verifiable, published source that suggests that the name "Lenore" is not the real name of the narrator's lost love but is, in fact, a pseudonym? Does anyone have a specific interpretation of the line "whom the angels name Lenore; nameless here forevermore"? There seems to be nothing more than a footnote connecting The Raven to Poe's poem, Lenore.
The similarities between the two the death of a young woman named Lenore, whom the author laments is more than simply coincidental. I've restored the set and am nominating them for featured picture consideration. The new illustrations are MB, which is orders of magnitude better than what the article had previously. It's a treat to locate these in a cohesive set. Have replaced within the article; feel welcome to tweak as needed. Best regards, Durova Wouldn't it be more appropriate to use the complete featured picture set within the article, particularly at lead position, and perhaps use the lower quality illustrations in a gallery within the publications section?
The Tenniel illustration currently at lead is only KB and suffers from chromatic aberration. I made no major changes. I simply fixed some awkward language. Being an FA doesn't mean it's perfect, and the wording I changed improved the article, by varying the sentence structure, and combining a couple of short, choppy sentences. Please explain why simple wording changes as well as some kind of bot fixes were simply reverted wholesale without any kind of explanation.
That doesn't seem acceptable in any way. I've restored the qualifier in the paragraph about his intentions. Does anyone have a third party source which comments upon the orientation of the final image for Manet's illustration? An editor has removed the featured version, citing this as a source. The existing featured picture retains the orientation from the version that appears in the Library of Congress rare book collection, which is a full book scan from the first edition. Headed over to Google Books to see what the sources over there have to say.
The image we're discussing is counted as either the fourth or the fifth illustration in these sources, depending upon whether the reviewer counts the bookplate as the first of the series. Although this search was unable to locate a specific discussion of the intended orientation of this image, they do discuss the unconventionality of these illustrations and universal respect and praise for the publishing. It is possible to double check the orientation of Wikipedia's featured picture against the orientation of surrounding pages on the Library of Congress copy: Here is another scan of the same edition with the image oriented "right way up".
And the Raven, never flitting, still is sitting—still is sitting On the pallid bust of Pallas just above my chamber door; And his eyes have all the seeming of a Demon's that is dreaming, And the lamp-light o'er him streaming throws his shadow on the floor; And my soul from out that shadow that lies floating on the floor Shall be lifted—nevermore! There is an example of a description of significant elements, at page , and the author identifies the same line I emphasized in the poem; so you [could] add this to caption if you edit the article again. The possibility remains that a book hunter has noted any printing errors, that might be notable in an article about the book itself - in fact that is a good idea for an article!
Yes, the Gallica copy is from the edition. Gallica has edited its scan for Web display, though. Only LoC posts every page including blank pages and the spine is clearly visible on each page so it is possible with LoC but not Gallica to cross-compare neighboring pages and confirm that each has its original printed orientation.
Note the difference on one of the other illustrations: If you want I could dig up a third party reference which confirms that the printer did do a 90 degree rotation on that other image: How about a mention of Ingram's comparison to Albert Pike's Isadore. Suppose the narrator doubts his own insistence that the raven can only say "Nevermore" because he knows that the first thing the Raven said was "Lenore" when he thought it was a humanish visitor even perhaps the lost Lenore.
He subsequently convinces himself that this was not said by the raven yet rightfully doubts this event that came before answering the door. I've tweaked the images here. Adam Cuerden talk Manet image of the ending: Works well in context of the other Manet images, but not on its own so much.
The opera is for baritone, clarinet, and dancer. It is half an hour long. There are thirteen movements, each based on a fragment of text from the poem. There are two clarinet solos, each accompanying a dance. The dancer plays the part of The Raven; the singer plays The Man. The clarinet represents the passage of time, and moves around the circular playing area during the performance, imitating the hands of a clock. Can someone tell me which version of the poem is used? His fundamental strategy for perceiving such autonomy was to view poetry not as an object but as a series of effects.
A poem such as Paradise Lost , Poe argues, is at least one half composed of prose, with which the poetic passages are interspersed. Hence the first poetic requirement, unity of impression, cannot be satisfied in a long poem. Hence beauty — not truth, or emotion, or goodness — is the peculiar province of poetry. Whereas, for Kant, beauty was a mode of apprehension on the part of the subject, for Poe it is a response caused in the reader or listener by the literary object or poem. This is perhaps the first insistence on artistic or poetic autonomy by an American writer; it may be significant, as emerges later in his text, that Poe somewhat aligned himself with Southern values and resented the domination of American letters by Northern liberalism, as instanced by the influence of the North American Review PP , Poe himself wrote for the Southern Literary Messenger , eventually rising to the editorship of this journal.
Truth, he says, demands a severity of language: We must be cool, calm, unimpassioned. Such a seemingly Platonic distinction between the language and mode of philosophy as against those of poetry has of course been challenged by many modern writers. Poe likewise divides the mind into three aspects: By situating his view of poetic autonomy within such a scheme, Poe is following a Kantian procedure of both identifying a subjective faculty specifically as aesthetic, and establishing boundaries between distinct human endeavors or attributes, boundaries which cannot be violated.
Hence poetry should not be realistic, merely copying or imitating the beauties that lie before us.
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